Thanks to everyone for making it to The Cameo last night for "Die Welle". As it finished quite late we didn't get much of a chance to discuss it.
Please use this post to share your thoughts on the film. It would be very interesting to read your reactions (you don't have to worry about structuring here - just write what pops into your head).
Just to get it started ...
... What engaged me most were the issues about politics, history and education that the film raised. I'm not convinced that it was a great film in terms of the art of film-making, however it's the kind of film that raises issues that your mind keeps wandering back to.
I liked the moment of ethical dilemma faced by the two anti-Wave girls who ran the student newspaper: should they lie about the activities of The Wave because they felt that it was the right thing to do in the context of what was happening?
I had a few brief words with Mend afterwards and he mentioned that it touched on some topical points to do with attitudes to nationalism or, maybe more accurately, national pride in modern Germany. Maybe Mend could expand on that for us.
Also I liked the very last sequence where the once confident and vocal teacher is reduced to a state of wordless shock. The final shot was interesting as well. The shot froze on his face a moment after he seemed to have a profound thought: I wonder what that thought was? Any suggestions?
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6 comments:
My thoughts on DIE WELLE.
The film really pulls you in to the experience that these pupils went through.
At first "The Wave" is just a school project, it's just a couple of ideas from students on what autocracy is. The pupils just think it's an experiment, but the teacher has other ideas.
It's interesting to see how easily sucked in they get. Only two of the class pupils reject the ideas completely and try to stop it.
The thoughts of the teacher when he ends this movement he's created...I would imagine one of horror mainly with himself for taking it so far...and then one of fear, as he doesn't know what he'll be accused of next.
This film touches on the dangers of an autocratic society...although at first it seems like such an innocent experiment.
well, i don't think it touches on the dangers of autocracy rather than on the dangers in modern societies in particular. especially because nowadays democracy appears to be quite at risk. people are scared of change that comes along with inflation, for instance. One could say they are more or less longing for some structure in the whole chaos that is produced by problems in politics, economy and so on, which, makes it easier for extreme views (that are basically represented by parties) to become popular and this is exactly what Germany has to face currently. There's a growing interest in Die Linken (The Lefties) and NPD (Nationalist Party Germany). However, like I said yesterday to Jerry, the younger generations don't seem to take the topic seriously enough. Opinions like 'why should we still feel responsible for things that happened 60 years ago' or 'a dictatorship would be absolutely impossible nowadays' reflect many views in the country.
The conclusion? First I was impressed by the acting (which is very good for German standards ;)
Other than that as the issue is very recent, I thought it was a perfect idea to see that movie.
Thanks Jerry!
Enjoyed the movie very much! It brought back memories of my school years; we all had to wear white shirts then, and whoever turned up wearing something else, they were sent back and not allowed to attend classes. But in this movie, the idea is completely different, it is done with an educational purpose. And I think, the method "Mr Reiner" adopted was great.
"Tim" is the character that impressed me most and made me reflecting on the fact how many teenagers feel lost and looking for purpose in their lives; and what a difficult time most of them are going through. Here comes the issue of finding one's own identity, as well as the issue of manipulation.
I somehow expected the film will have a positive ending! I think "Mr Reiner" is a fantastic teacher, but what an enormous responsibility teachers carry! This movie changed my perception of the teaching profession: it left me feeling great respect for teachers!
The film dealt with a very important issue. Some students just don't see the danger of a possible new dictatorship because they think like the student who said that now we are far tooenlightened to make the same mistakes again. But it doesn't have to go as far as the Third Reich to be a proper danger.
The election period in Germany at the moment is very important as well, because the film tells me not to vote for those who can manipulate best. The Party "Die Linke" (Zeitgeist talks about them) have two very important manipulative heads. One is a member of the former GDR Party SED which was known for manipulated elections and stuff like the whole spying thing going on those days. Watch "The life of others" if you are interested to know more.
Only dumb and numb poeple vote for them! That is a mistake in Germany's election system. Not everybody should vote but everybody who is clever enough to make it right should have the permission. That's my little opinion, see also Bush in America to make it clear for everybody what a whole lot of stupid people can cause.
Now something for Zeitgeist:
First of all, the NPD is only an issue in the EAST Part of Germany. That is important to mention because otherwise you spread dangerous rumors. And If you would know about East Germany then you would know why the NPD could make it into parliament in Sachsen.
Second thing is, that Germany has an excellent image concerning films, philosophy and literature. Ever heard of Fassbinder? No? Have a look, but I think if you are about to measure it with films like "Die Hard" or "The Day after tomorrow" then you will be disappointed because the brutal action is missing. Fassbinder is art. He was genius! But enough of that, maybe you should think about that for a while.
In the end I have to say that I liked the movie because of the issue. Mona and Karo, the two girls who threw the flyers in the pool, have a very important position. They represent what was the Resistance in the Third Reich. When Karo went through the school and put the flyers in front of every classroom door, that was exactly what Sophie Scholl did, that was brilliant! Only people, who don't feel responsible for their history (Mona said that in class) can make the same mistakes again. And the members of "Die Welle" couldn't see what's going on because there wasn't any obvious racism they could be curious about.
The experiment in this movie works everywhere. Honestly: the original experiment was made in the USA. Far away from Germany these things work. So, who else did not learn from Germany's mistakes because it wasn't their countries fault that millions of poeple were tortured to death in some concentration camps?? That's not about guilt, it about responsibility... (See Mona in the movie)
Dear Verena, I’m afraid I must correct you on the point about nationalist ideas in Germany. Unfortunately it is not only an issue in ‘the EAST Part of Germany” or Sachsen where such ideas are becoming more popular again, however when I say popular of course this cannot be compared to the popularity of a pop star (!).
By the way, it doesn’t necessarily need to be in form of a party like NPD but it can also be in form of a student organisation (e.g ‘Rastatter Kameradschaft’) ; The declaration “Only dumb and numb people vote for them!” is as far as I know not exactly right. There are a growing number of activists among students, too. Therefore this phenomenon isn’t as simple as that. I guess, as a member of Amnesty International Freiburg one apparently hears more than others. Moreover, Anti-Americanism is a bit over the top if you talk about this or would you say the USA only consist of ‘dumb and numb people’ (“otherwise you spread dangerous rumours”)? I doubt that, despite my antipathy with Bush.
Now let’s get to your last statement. I have never questioned the sophistication of German philosophy, literature (which I still appreciate) or deepness of movies. The criticism is barely in respect of German acting, I don’t think I need to explain myself and say that this surely reflects only my own opinion.
Anyway, I assume the movie itself is a response to the German current situation. Especially after the WM. And especially because the economy (of course like in many further countries) is crackling.
Well that's it.
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